August 21, 2005
Pittsburgh Police Use Tasers At Counter-Recruiting Demo
Pittsburgh Indymedia has more coverage on the protests including video of the shooting. At least five protesters were arrested and two were hospitalized. One woman was bit by a police dog. A second woman suffered injuries after being shot with a 50,000-volt Taser stun gun.
Posted by MikeBurke on August 21, 2005 | Permalink
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Thank, God. After the firebombing of one recruiting station and the shooting of another, I can see where the police might think that the demonstrators might get violent.
Posted by: Dave M. Davis | Aug 21, 2005 10:05:45 PM
Yeah, at noon on one of the busiest streets in Pittsburgh. You moron.
Posted by: Michael Edelstone | Aug 22, 2005 10:10:51 AM
aside from why it happened.... the video is cool! already played it 4 times.
Posted by: Christian | Aug 22, 2005 7:05:26 PM
Whooo Haaaa! That was awesome!!! Where's the rest of the vid, how about showing why this lady was tasered.
Posted by: Big Smiles!!! | Aug 22, 2005 11:13:43 PM
She must've done something stupid to piss off the cops that badly.
Posted by: Yo Mama | Aug 22, 2005 11:37:43 PM
Counter Recruitment Protests?
Stupidest thing I've ever heard.
God forbid liberals ever finally realize that individuals are responsible for their own actions, and that our miliary is a VOLUNTEER organization.
Liberals are schizos. These protests seem to be driven by their disappointment that no one fell for their "The draft is coming" fear-inspiring campaign.
Posted by: steve hinde | Aug 23, 2005 8:31:33 AM
Well, I might be leaving recruiting duty and going back to the "real" army, real soon. If there ever is a draft...be warned. I discriminate against draftees. Draftees will never get promoted past Private, and college educated draftees will have their Officer Candidate School (OCS) packets denied. So you might want to volunteer.
Posted by: Dave M Davis | Aug 23, 2005 8:55:31 AM
I love how one of them called the police a "fascist pig." What kind of idiots actually believe this stuff? That lady completely deserved what she had coming, but the funny part is, they won't show the events leading up to her ownage.
Posted by: Ryan | Aug 23, 2005 7:03:49 PM
That would require full disclosure, or in other words telling the truth about these "peaceful" demonstrations.
Posted by: Dave M Davis | Aug 23, 2005 9:25:01 PM
That is AWESOME! Those people got totally owned. Right on, Cops!!
And lastly, if Counter Recruiters, ever show up near my recruiting station, expect to be dealt with harshly, in similar manners as those jack poles in Pittsburgh. Only for the sole and simple fact that I don't come to your work and harass you, or tell you not to serve a whopper to a customer, so close this little anti-American site down, and if you try to cheat me out of my job, I will seek swift vengeance and retribution. This is our lives your screwing with.If you like your civil liberties, tread lightly, because the military can lock down this Nation quick fast in a hurry if your little demonstrations get out of hand again.
"Counter Recruiting is a tactic of the weak willed, too afraid to stand up for an issue that might result in the loss of one's life for the common good, or greater interest of a Nation."
Posted by: Army Soldier 05 | Aug 24, 2005 2:46:02 AM
OUTSTANDING!!!!!!!! To Protect and Serve!
Posted by: Army Soldier 06 | Aug 24, 2005 1:36:22 PM
Yet another sign we are heading for a police state. Yet another demonstration of the "freedoms" our soldiers are supposedly fighting to protect ? Like the shooting of Brazilian DeMenezes (in London) and the paramilitary raid of the rave party in Utah. Cut down the protestors because they *might* get violent? Put me in jail because I *might* just shoot you? What has become of us?
Somehow I am not surprised it involved a Faux news photographer.
Sad, sad developments. Definately makes me apathetic about this country--certainly don't want to join the military for that.
Dave, you moron. You discriminate against draftees? So, by that logic you discriminate against everyone not in the military who could possibly be drafted--because it amounts to the same thing! People you are supposed to be protecting! Tssk. Tssk.
Oh, heaven forbid they get in the way of your livelihood, Army Soldier 5. Hope you don't get your quota and you get a less than honorable discharge for the non-performance of duty. Your response proves you are a stupid schmuck who has no idea of what this country is about.
"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
Posted by: | Aug 24, 2005 7:26:16 PM
Well now. Allow me to retort. The reason why I don't want draftees is because, in all likelihood, draftees don't want to be in the Army in the first place. Why reward them. Why not reward a volunteer, who actually does want to be in the Army.
You have no idea the responses recruiters get from parents, college students and high school students.
Responses like, "I think I'll support the war from my living room." I had a parent tell me today, "Nothing against the Army, I just don't want my daughter in the Army during a time of war," meaning that if it was a peace time Army, it would be fine and dandy if Uncle Sam paid for her daughters education.
As for protestors, nothing against them if they really are peaceful. But, when protestors start throwing bottles at police trying to provoke an incident, that is when it changes. When protestors are being supported (and possibly funded) by terrorist organizations, that is when I get a little angry. When I hear anti-war protestors supporting the suicide bombers, then I come to the conclusion that these protestors are NOT for peace, but for defeat.
I believe in freedom, but I do not believe that anti-war demonstrators have the right to mislead the public about what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. If you really want to know the truth, enlist and go there, and see for yourself.
Posted by: Dave M Davis | Aug 24, 2005 8:58:39 PM
I don't know what this country is about? So you tell me "civilian."
Where is your Purple Heart? Where are your Valor Commendations? Thats right! You don't have any! I bled for assholes like you, and your "freedoms." You can doubt, which you most likely will, so look it up yourself. The Permanent Order #322-004, US Army, awarded 18 Nov 03. Hell, check my whole record, I don't care. But I sure as hell didn't see you aiding the war effort to minimize our time there, or helping keep me or my fellow soldiers out of harm's way. You know nothing of duty, honor, or courage. You have never met the enemy, whose only desire is destroy anything Western. You have never seen an anti-war protestor shoot a fellow soldier in the street. Did Soldiers spit on you when you sat on your ass while we were in Iraq? No, they didn't. But your despicable kind sure did to me.
It infuriates me to listen to the "Winter Soldiers" and the Counter Recruiter Movement demean and belittle the Federal Government, The Commander-In-Chief, and the US Armed Forces. Obviously, you have no idea what being a member of this country means. Your freedoms are not rights because they are on a piece of parchment in D.C. They were secured by the blood of Patriots. So until you bleed for this country, despite her ills, and support her endeavors, watch who you call stupid schmucks. For if you do interfere with my livelihood or that of my family, I will take my payment from subversives like yourself. You are no better than the terrorists themselves, because you openly discourage this Nation, and her military.
I gave up certain freedoms, just for the chance to serve, and will continue to do so, despite your best efforts to undermine that cause.
Who cares about Brazilians being shot in London? Why do you care? Its not this country's problem!! That's your whole platform, Iraq shouldn't have been our problem. So why is some South Americans getting popped in London a concern?
You know nothing. You know nothing of the military, or war. You know nothing of sacrificing for the greater Good. You know nothing of Loyalty to these great United States. You know nothing of Honor for those who give you your Freedom.
Posted by: Army Soldier 05 | Aug 24, 2005 10:13:24 PM
RE: Army Soldier 05
Congratulations sir, how brave you are. Thank you for bleeding for these American '"freedoms"' as you call them. But may I ask, what freedom do you refer to? Today's American is no longer free to express his opinion, choose his life's path, or even walk safely through his own neighborhood. You have acknowledged that merely because they are written on a parchment, "your freedoms are not rights"; clearly, only a select few are entitled to them. Is this the equality that your country prides itself on? The equality that you are fighting for? Or, do you fight for the values you have been conditioned to support since birth: those that have been pounded into your head by your parents, teachers, religious and political leaders? You defend the "Western" philosophy of life, but you fail to realize that Western civilization is built upon the same values that you believe your enemies to stand for: religious fanaticism, tyranny, oppression, domination, genocide. Since these atrocities are still practiced as a result of Western civilization, it is clearly you who knows nothing. You know nothing of Western history. You know nothing of the ethnic cleansings that have facilitated your country's progress even prior to its conception. You know nothing of the facade your government presents to you in order for it to continue to prosper while billions of others suffer as a result. You fight for the wicked designs of a winning team because you are not brave enough to fight a losing, but righteous battle. You are a tool, a puppet, and a hypocrite. I ask that you please open your mind and educate yourself, so that you may at least know the truth about the tyrants that you support. A library would be a good place to begin. Enjoy your purple heart.
Posted by: the truth | Aug 26, 2005 1:09:40 AM
Are you saying that in Cambodia, for example, that the Communist dictator, Pol Pot was a righteous dude? How about Milosevec? Was he righteous? How about Saddam Hussein? How about Hezbollah? Hezbollah just recently killed some Christians in Lebanon. Please give an example of someone who is righteous?
Presedent Bush is not the tyrant here. There was an election for President in 2000 and 2004. There will be another election in 2008. There will be an election for the House and a 1/3rd of the Senate in 2006. Democrats and Republicans are already discussing election strategy.
If you want to live under Sha'ria law I suggest you move to Iran, and see how much freedom you enjoy there.
As for the United States, all I have to say is this. No country is perfect, just as no man is perfect. If you can find a person (alive today) or country that is, please tell me.
Posted by: Dave M Davis | Aug 26, 2005 7:36:46 AM
Re: Dave M Davis:
Your aforementioned fascists and dictators are indeed terrible people. Bush was indeed elected, but plutocratically, not democratically. And finally, as a middle class white man, I am quite satisfied with my freedom; it is the freedom of blacks, Muslims, gays, women, children and the impoverished which concern me.
The problem is, you are attempting to draw this argument away from its roots. This message board began as a result of a sickening violation of a civilian's Rights, as she protested the byproducts of an unjust war. As a recruiter, you too are a pawn. You are being lied to; made to believe that war is righteous and the only way for problems to be solved is to eradicate those who cause them. Makes sense right? If someone gets in the way, incapacitate them with thousands of volts of electricity. Send vicious dogs after them. Drop bombs on their country. That's what you've always been taught by society. You see the same philosophy in sports, you see it in business. Ironically though, by attempting to annihilate all those who oppose you, you are enacting the same genocidal practices of the figures that you mentioned in your response.
As you beckon the future minds of your country, innocent (and ignorant) youths, to their deaths in nations like Iraq or Afghanistan, please ask yourself what will be achieved. America's problems will and never have been solved by warfare. When all is said and done overseas, your civilians, those you intend to protect, are still facing poverty, obesity, athsma, cancer, rape and unwarranted police brutality.
While I would be foolish to disagree that anyone or any nation is perfect, my studies have taught me that many tribes of Native North Americans were living quite well for millennia. They had a balanced relationship with nature, stable societal structure, and enough food that (by comparison to modern times) they very seldom went hungry. Unfortunately, your American patriots and pilgrims came in and, well, they kinda ethnically cleansed most of them. But hey, we made a great holiday to remember the genocide. Happy Thanksgiving.
I know that you mean well, I really do. But I beg you to think about the carnage that you are perpetuating by supporting these injustices. You seem to be a fairly educated, articulate man and I think your talents would prove far more useful to humanity improving lives than endangering them.
Posted by: the truth | Aug 26, 2005 11:19:42 PM
While it would be nice to sit down and drink tea with brutal dictators and have "conflict resolution" and "sensitivity training" with these people and actually have it work, reality has a different kind of tale to tell. Do you really believe for a minute that peace with Adolph Hitler was the right thing to do, or should he have been stopped earlier?
Osama bin Laden is just like Pol Pot. He is a fanatic. Some of his followers (just like some of Pol Pot followers) think he is a god.
Do you really believe that these people will just "stop if we stop." Remember:
1) Osama bin Laden and the Taliban attacked the United States, not the other way around.
2) Saddam Hussein, and members of the U.N. were in violation of U.N. sanctions.
Question: Is the U.N. becoming like the League of Nations? Is it an entity that is afraid to enforce its own resolutions?
Posted by: | Aug 27, 2005 12:18:58 AM
Re: David M Davis:
I’m very sorry; I have apparently misjudged the extent of your education on world issues. Ugh, this will be unbelieveably easy.
You may be articulate but you're clearly ignorant to the facts. Under the Reagan administration, the U.S. provided billions in aid to the majahadeen fighters in Afghanistan, also known as the "Afghan Arabs". These people were trained by the CIA to kill Russians. They used many of the same tactics as the Iraqi rebels who are labelled terrorists today by people like yourself.
Why were they "freedom fighters" back then and "terrorists" now? Simple. They used their terrorist tactics against America's enemies in the '80s, whereas today they use them against America.
Also research U.S. support for the brutal military rulers of El Salvador, the Contras in Nicaragua and numerous other terror organizations. These people were responsible for rape, torture and mass murder on a widespread scale. Their brutality was sponsored and celebrated by American administrations.
Saddam Hussein was also regarded as America's "man in the Middle East" during the Iran-Iraq war. This support continued during his genocide of the Kurds and Shias in northern Iraq. Only when their oil supplies in Kuwait were threatened did the US turn against Saddam.
More recently, the US sponsored a coup against the democratically elected President of Venezuela in 2002. Hugo Chavez was elected twice in elections deemed fair by the UN with upwards of 65% voter support. This makes him far more legitimate than Mr Bush. Yet Chavez has been indirectly under attack because of American opposition to his socialist politics.
What is democratic about this? You are fighting the same people you once supported, sponsoring terrorism and attempting to topple democracies.
God bless America, huh?
Once again, you’ve shifted the focus from the violations of American Civil Rights for which this message board was created, to the threadbare topic of Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein.
I thank you for your time in reading my responses, but one more lame-ass reply like your most recent one, and I won’t even waste my time responding. I’m only in high school, and even with my limited education, disproving you is far too easy. I expect your next response to actually carry something of intellectual, historical or social weight. No more of this sarcastic tea-time crap.
Posted by: the Truth | Aug 28, 2005 9:41:44 PM
Your in high school, but you really don't know much about history. We were attacked. There are many examples where the U.S. was allied with a nation that later on became an enemy. The British were enemies with the U.S. in the 18th and 19th Centuries. Now we are allies. What changed?
Todays ally does not equal tomorrows ally. Alliances come and alliances go. Very rarely are alliances permenant. The longest standing alliance is that between Portugal and Great Britain. It has been in place since the 1300s
Also, remember, The Afghan freedom fighters were made up of different groups, to include the Taliban. It just so happens that they came out on top after the Soviet Union pulled out of Afghanistan.
Saddam Hussein (I thought) agreed to the terms of the 1991 peace agreement. Do we do as the French and buy Iraqi oil, just so Saddam and his sons can build more palaces?
I also don't here you complaining about U.S. involvement in Kosovo, or the former Yugoslavia.
And speaking of tea, I'm serious. What is your solution to Bin Laden and his followers? Do we just stand by and wait for another terrorist attack. Jst because we are Americans doesn't mean that we deserve to die a horrible death. Osama Bin Laden is one of those "give me some of that old time Islamic religion," type of Muslims.
He doesn't care about you, and he doesn't care about me. He would saw your head off first. He would kidnap your 10 year old brother (if you had one) and stick him in a Janissary (a form of Imperial Guard).
As far as the Contras go, what do you know about the Contras? Have you been to Honduras? Many (and I do mean many) of the Contras were former Sandinistas. Daniel Ortega was just one dictator replacing another. If you believe in freedom of the press (even to criticize the President of the country) you better not support Ortega. He would lock you up.
Posted by: Dave M. Davis | Aug 28, 2005 10:23:15 PM
This is interesting.
When the state responds to non-violent protests with violence, they slowly sideline the non-violent elements in any movement, which forces a more militant approach next time.
This keeps up, we'll have riots and daily street battles with this government until they do the right thing and end the war..
Posted by: MOOS Man | Aug 29, 2005 12:46:01 PM
Does anyone have any information on what happened before the events on the video? At the start of the video, the woman is lying down on the ground, not moving, and is under the control of a police officer. She appears to be no threat to anyone. Another officer charges over and tasers her for no reason that I can see in the video.
Is there more to it? Is there something not shown on the video that would justify the officer's actions? Is this video really a fair and accurate portrayal of how the Pittsburgh police behave?
I know it's fun to spew vitriol at one another over the war, but this was originally about the conduct of the police. To me, what I think of the protesters' opinions is just not relevant; the issue here is whether the police conducted themselves properly.
Posted by: Curious | Aug 30, 2005 6:30:01 PM
Finally someone who remebers the actual topic that the web site was created for! It has nothing to do with freaking Pol Pot, Kosovo, purple hearts or chai tea lattes. I suppose the relevance to the whole war thing came up because these moronic testasterone junkie soldiers are trying to say that the counter recruiters shouldn't have been there in the first place, so they decide to go on these wild tangents about america's past 700 year war history.
Although I couldn't help but point out how hypocritical their argumets are, I've been saying from the start that the actual issue is the CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATION that occurred in Pittsburgh, where an obviously unarmed, complying protester was attacked by police. I think another important topic (that I've tried to bring up) would be to discuss what sort of sociological influences make one human feel fine about sending incapacitating amounts of electricity through another. What are your thoughts? In my mind, it doesn't matter what she did before; the police had her in custody and should have let the judicial system decide her punishment.
Thank you for bringing this discussion back the the issue that is actually relevant, and sorry that you and others had to suffer through much of this unrelated 'vitriol', haha.
Posted by: the Truth | Aug 30, 2005 9:08:22 PM
As one of the "testosterone junkie" soldiers, I ask this. What is a complying protester? Its a contradiction in terms. If you are protesting, you are not complying. Hence, protest. True, we have no backstory to why she was jolted. Attacked by police? If the issue is the police violating civil rights, they will be prosecuted. As we have no context to base the event on, we do not know if she was indeed unarmed, or compliant. The police are local authority, that felt a need to respond in that way. As you stated Truth, "let the judicial system decide...[their]...punishment" as well, if they are in the wrong. Civil Disobedience is not a civil right. It is its namesake, disobedience. The reaction was measured, and someone will be held accountable.
And in reference to Curious' opening, if the video showed the event in its entirety; the media, myself, you, or anyone else wouldn't be able to fill in the blanks and we wouldn't have this debate. Its spin, from any angle. Whether my side or the opposed.
And one more question for Truth. Can you produce tangible evidence that we sponsored any goverment coups or the CIA trained any of the foreign contras since 1976? Executive Order 12333 by President Ford prohibited those kinds of activities. Now thats not to say it did or did not happen, but there is no burden of proof. As I spent the last 5 years in the reconnaissance and intelligence community, I'm sure they are well covered from the investigative eye of a high schooler. But good luck with that.
As for your issue of backing Saddam Hussein in the Iraq-Iran War, the issue was selling high priced arms to Iran and using the proceeds for the Nicaraguan Contras. Not that he was our man in the Middle East.
This is a war in Iraq, whether you like it or not, and it will go on. This isn't Operation Mongoose or Operation Phoenix, so the drivel of supporting injustices is ignorance and naivety. But then again, remind me how an ANTI-WAR/RECRUITING protest is not at all related to the war and the U.S. military?
You have done your homework, and I congratulate sincerely of your knack for history. But it is a shame that you use your intellect to demean and criticize local civil government and the elected leaders of the Nation. Maybe when you can vote, you'll help the system and aid in policy change. Rather than call persons like myself morons, who enlisted after they earned a degree. And whether you like it or not, are still wiser than you, child.
Posted by: Army Soldier 05 | Sep 1, 2005 1:00:27 AM
wtf?? How come you never hear of any americans paddling their way to cuba or iraq or afghanistan or any of those damn countrys. ?? well draw your conclusion why... america is great long live the GOP and our all volunteer army.. Ill keep doing my P1 and my P3 and shall find more willing to sacrafice for the good Ol USA.!!
Posted by: OIF vet | Oct 29, 2005 10:03:10 AM
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