CounterRecruiter: The Indypendent: New Issue Out Now on Counter-Recruitment

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October 20, 2005

The Indypendent: New Issue Out Now on Counter-Recruitment

Download PDF of new issue.

Posted by MikeBurke on October 20, 2005 | Permalink

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Comments

So with all this counter recruiting...Does this mean you all want a draft?

Posted by: ArmySoldier | Oct 29, 2005 9:46:49 PM

Serving in the military is just for those who cannot afford higher education and overpriced imported coffee. The "Coastal" people should not have to serve the country. They are far too important to starbucks stock holders. They need to sit in their air conditioned college classrooms and pass judgment on others. That is all they are good for anyway. Hitler must be looking out from hell thinking "Why couldn't the Americans of the 1940's been like that." Should he dare to dream what could have been?

Posted by: | Oct 29, 2005 11:57:54 PM

Army Soldier,

To answer your question, yes, I support the return of the draft.

Posted by: IRR Soldier... | Oct 30, 2005 12:40:00 PM

Is this so you will not be called back? Now that your butt is on the line...you want others to pull their share?

Posted by: ArmySoldier | Oct 30, 2005 1:36:11 PM

Well, not exactly. I have always supported the draft, even when I was on Active Duty.

My support of the draft had nothing to do with the current conflict or my own possibility of recall from the IRR. This is a consistent perspective I have had for over a decade.

In the near and long term, I am deeply concerned for the health of our military, its ability to have a rapid "surge capacity" in the event of a crisis and a military that is growing more and more unrepresentative of the society it serves. The draft can and will serve our nation by providing needed quality military manpower in a cost-effective way while bringing the added social impact of mixing Americans from a variety of backgrounds.

As for myself, a Captain, I would likely be recalled if the draft were implemented. After all, someone has to provide the leadership cadre/training base for the new accessions. Still, this would be an assignment I would welcome because I would know that my recall was directly helping the Army "fix" its manning woes by ensuring that IRR recalls would never happen again unless a major event occurs (e.g. a WWIII).

The current IRR recalls are basically being used as "patches" for a personnel system that has suffered a catostrophic blowout. The IRR well is finite (especially among NCOs and officers) and we had better think of something quick to fill the 5,000 CPT vacancies in the USAR and 3,700 LT vacancies.

Posted by: IRR Soldier... | Oct 30, 2005 2:36:37 PM

I am with you on this one. Though a draft would suck for us currently serving...it would do wonders for our nation as a whole.

Posted by: ArmySoldier | Oct 30, 2005 5:04:57 PM

This site should change to COUNTERRECRUITER.NET....BRING BACK THE DRAFT.
Once you do that...see how many young Americans you would get to further your interests...

Posted by: ArmySoldier | Oct 30, 2005 5:06:27 PM

IRR you express my sentiments exactly, not only would a draft put an end to how our volunteer force are duped into a situation they didnt think they enlisted for (mandatory reclassification/stop loss/etc etc), it would force our elected officials to think twice about the necessity of military action.

Posted by: lakers | Nov 3, 2005 5:59:23 AM

lakers,
You mentioned mandatory reclassification. I would welcome reclassification. It would help me get promoted. As for a draft, the problem is that draftees would pose problems for volunteers and NCO's and officers. Draftees would encourage their fellow soldiers to frag officers and NCO's and draftees will always find a way to get kicked out of the military anyway. Like smoke dope, or male soldiers kissing each other, just to get kicked out.

Posted by: | Nov 4, 2005 12:47:34 AM

To the previous poster:

Nonsense! The Army maintained a draft from 1947-1973 - in both peace and war.

You are completely ignorant of the history of your own Army. During the draft, draftees were chaptered at about 1/2 the rate of volunteers, went AWOL less than volunteers and overall had a higher civilian education level than the volunteers.

Draftees have a unique attitude: "do your job, keep your nose clean, survive and go home." Even during Vietnam, many of the "problem children" were "3 Year RA" volunteers. A draftee has no incentive to get court-martialed.

Pick up the book "United we Serve,", Chapter 3 and educate yourself.

Posted by: IRR Soldier... | Nov 4, 2005 2:11:22 PM

well if your in an mos in which you cannot get promoted then your most likely eligible for the BEAR program in which case you can request a new mos. Granted they are not spectacular jobs (thats why there forcing soldiers into them) so your reasoning there just doesnt fly. As to your comments on the hazards of a draft, this is not 1960 and this isnt vietnam were involved in. I think your way off base in your assumptions and out of touch with the realities of today or the positive effects this could cause not only for those serving now but as a warning to those that risk others to do their fighting. How many congressmen/senetors sons and daughters are serving anyway in either party? Last I knew it was one and he was getting out. Further I believe a two year conscription for all able minded american should be mandatory for US citizens at the age of 18, wouldnt necessarily have to be in the armed forces and this type of thing has worked well for several years in other countries. Of course those countries dont fight wars of convenience tho!

Posted by: lakers | Nov 4, 2005 2:13:01 PM

Lakers,
Here is the problem. For one thing, the Army offers guaranteed training (that's an occupation, or job) of choice (provided they qualify). A color blind person with a rap sheet full of traffic tickets and misdemeanors is not going to become an MP (Military Police). It just ain't happening. They might qualify for another job, and if they sign up for that job (and pass the school, and background check in some situations) then they are awarded the job. The reclassification that you are talking about (i.e. BEAR, is usually for those that are already on there first or in many situations second assignment.
I am talking to retention right now about BEAR and other options. The problem is my job is "balanced" (according to my branch manager) at 798 for SSG. As for a draft. You are right. This isn't Vietnam, something the war protesters miss entirely. But, they have the same attitude that some of the soldiers (both draftee and volunteer) had back then. I even had someone tell me that he will join the Army when they reinstate the draft. Like he will have a choice of which service to serve in if there ever is a draft.

Dave

Posted by: Dave M. Davis | Nov 4, 2005 6:25:03 PM

If your in a balanced MOS you are the type of person they are looking at to reclass! Maybe its the Star MOS program I am thinking about, however the option is there, sadly branch managers just like recruiters tend to not always tell the people that ask the whole story. Further many people during the draft years enlisted as a pre-emptive move to go into their preferred service or get into the guard or reserves (see Bush, George) and that would likely be the case again.

Posted by: lakers | Nov 5, 2005 8:25:29 AM

Dave Davis,

Again, you really need to get a basic understanding of how the draft was conducted when this nation had it. The Navy and Air Force were 100% volunteers on four year enlistments from '47-'73. Why were they able to get these four year volunteers? Answer, many Americans enlisted in the Navy and USAF for 4 to avoid being drafted into the Army for 2. In addition, hundreds of thousands of college students pursued commisisons via ROTC because college grads could get drafted. This phenomenon is discussed in Colin Powell's book, "My American Journey."

Lakers is 100% correct.

Posted by: IRR Soldier... | Nov 5, 2005 4:17:23 PM

I'll die before I kill another human, or support any organization who does. No reason is good enough to kill. I will always choose death before killing.

Posted by: nokilli | Nov 12, 2005 9:47:16 AM

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